Not to be outdone by Pacione’s advice on writing, Daggy posted his own essay on the topic. Natually, he crassly mentions the amount of money he claims to have made, right in the title. Just in case we didn’t get his point, he posted a photo of himself, crouching, Pacione-like, fanning out a fistful of dollar bills. Remember Pacione’s famous crouch pose? Daggy nailed it.
This conversation always seems to come up whenever my name is made in passing in certain industry circles, regarding that “Prolific Hack” Lawrence R. Dagstine. This time it came via Facebook a few days ago by a person we’ll call Chubbs. Congratulations, Chubbs, you are now a character in my upcoming, racially provocative, cyberpunk novella, MAURICE AND THE URBANITES. All with good intentions, Chubbs; I won’t kill your character off.
How generous of our dear Dagstine. He writes a perceived enemy into a story, but is a bigger man than Pacione by not killing him at the end.
If there’s one thing I’m known for, it’s helping other writers find markets for their work.
Yeah –4theluv markets.
Hi, my name is Lawrence. I’m a hack writer who made roughly $5000.00 in 2009 from the written word. Cash. Mojo. Bling.
I think he misplaced a decimal, and conveniently forgot that he made most of that selling used magazines at a flea market.
. . . this is how I perceive Quantity and Quality.
QUANTITY = The Possibility of Fast Money and Brief Popularity.
QUALITY = The Possibility of Immortality and Elegance of Prose.
Translation: I aim for fast money and want to be popular, and don’t give a farthing about quality. I live in the here and now, ’cause I could get hit by a garbage truck tomorrow, and long term goals are for fools.
I think everybody pretty much knows by now that I submit to a LOT of half-cent to three-cent per word paying markets. I often have a minimum of 20 to 40 different short stories and novelettes floating out there at any given time, and so should you; with reprints, once rights have reverted back to me, sometimes as many as 60 fiction markets.
Except that submissions don’t equal markets, and he’s been known to shop reprints to venues that only take original material, even before rights have reverted back to him, hoping the editor won’t notice.
One is taught to submit to nothing but the highest paying markets, because there is this invisible rule, and everybody should adhere to it. Because we should better ourselves. Start at the top, work your way down. Maybe go to Clarions or Borderlands or a similar writing workshop, and attend seminars where you can sit down with actual New York Times Bestselling Authors. Excellent philosophy.
[. . .]
I wouldn’t dare say keep that piece sitting in a drawer, especially if you believe in it. Submit it!
Translation: Great philosphy, but impractical, so submit your shit to non-paying or minimally paying markets, or you won’t even make that little.
Basically, have a secondary income coming in on a fairly repetitive basis.
What he neglects to say is that his primary income is the dole.
. . . I’m not a full-time writer.
Nope. Full-time government mooch/wannabe, but too lazy to hold even a part-time job.
Once again, that $5000.00 was from part-time writing, not full-time. This came from short fiction, short non-fiction, selling Dagstine mags and wares in Coney Island . . .
Selling used magazines that had one of his stories, and used comics, if I’m not mistaken, was how he made most of his money. Nobody wanted his book. Besides, didn’t he claim in his previous essay that he made at least $5k just at Coney Island?
Freelancing is quick cash. Thanks to it, I sell most of my works a minimum of three times each.
And thanks to Daggy’s creative accounting, he counts them more times than that in his credits.
. . . because people have inferiority complexes (such as Chubbs). What good is a writer who ends up worm food from lack of finances?
I wasn’t aware that people who could pay their bills were immune to ending up as worm food. Daggy, all mortals die, and you aren’t immortal. Indeed, you said you weren’t interested in immortality.
Remember, only you are responsible for your own destiny.
The way he’s going, his lying, conniving, shit-stirring, and general toxicity have pretty much already sealed his fate.
A pathetic attempt to make himself look “legit” after getting owned on SL…
I’ll provide rebuttal here to this steaming pile of lies in the morning, after I get a good night’s sleep. I’d respond on Dagstine’s blog, but he’s too afraid of facts to allow anyone with a dissenting opinion to post.
But I will say this: Daggy, you’re trying to make the numbers lie and it’s not working.
An update on our “hero” Dagtine.
I hope Rusty doesn’t mind me emulating her take on the Flea.
http://johaha.wordpress.com/
Sorry.
It’s good to see you back on the job, Johaha. He’s an idiot.
Muahahahahaha says Johaha
Thumbs up, Johaha.
Do americans use mojo and bling for money?
My understanding is mojo is sex appeal (Austin Powers style) and bling is wearing a lot of jewellry (Mr T style).
And who does 5000.00?
No cents, no need.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/mojo
Mojo can, in some cases, refer to cocaine.
However, it has never been used to mean money. And it can mean personal charisma and so forth.
Bling is indeed jewelry. You got that right. But it’s usually cheap or gaudy jewelry.
Interesting that after he says “[Pacione] showed me everything,” he goes on to ape Nikki by doing the “I’m so cool” squat AND writing an enemy into a story. Although his idea of “racially provocative” will no doubt be composed of negative stereotypes — if it ever comes to exist (Hey Dagstine, whatever happened to that Coney Island article?)
So now let’s rip your little essay apart, shall we?
Your “perceptions” of quantity and quality don’t exactly mesh with what’s in Webster’s do they? In terms of writing, quantity is simply the number of stories you put out to market and their respective word count. Quality is simply putting your possible effort into making the work as clean and entertaining as possible. That’s it. Immortality? Elegance of Prose? That’s as purple as a bad bruise, Dagstine. Besides, it’s up to the readers, both now and in the future, to decide as to whether a written work has any merit.
However, it occurs to me that you emphasize the “quick buck” and “brief popularity” as defined by your “perception” of quality. This alone is enough to tell me that you don’t have what it takes to be a writer. It takes time, effort and patience to be good in this field, and you exhibit none of those traits. I liken writing to martial arts — you have to put sweat on the floor for years before you understand that no matter how much you progress, you’re still a student.
Do you really think that those striving for the pro-markets are vying for some form of immortality? Oh wait, you’ve seemed to have expressed this poorly informed vision of what writers are people who wear Banana Republic sweaters and talk about highly intellectual concepts at conventions. Well, I guess anything I talk about is above your intellect, so that part may be true. No, the pro-writers are selling their work to the top bidder because that’s their job. If they don’t do that they starve. And even then, most writers have a regular job on top of their writing. Joe Haldeman? He teaches at MIT and still writes damn fine SF. Not all pro-writers do this full time. If you actually read author’s bios (or if you just read, period), you would know that Daggy.
Now let’s talk about you trying to make the numbers lie, starting with “example #1.”
For first time publication rights, a professional market pays at least $0.05 per word (as rated by SFWA). So those two 6,000 word stories could have netted you $300 each if sold to a pro market. $600 versus $120? That’s not a tough call. And even if I sold reprints of that story to other markets, I’ll still be making a greater career net than you. But the thing about reprint rights is (if I’m right about this) that they don’t kick in right after you make the sale of first rights — it depends on what’s in the contract. Thus reselling a story right after it’s been sold to one magazine might be something of a no-no. One might even call it dishonest (which describes you to a “T,” Dagstine). And the thing about the professional markets is if you try to cheat them like this, your writing career will burst into flames and take a nose dive.
Now I see why you advocate sub-pro and “4tehlurv” markets. You can cheat there.
(Oh, and this: “I can probably name three or four other prolific short story writers who have me beat with the numbers above.” Don’t say you can… do it. You look like a tool here who can’t back a claim with facts. Wait a minute, that’s exactly what you are.)
Let’s continue with your poor mathematics…
Well, we can’t count the Coney Island sales, because that’s nowhere near the same as a writing sale. Chances are you paid for your copies of your own work and hand sold them. So let’s drop that to say $4000 (and I’m being generous). At your only quoted price of a penny a word, you would have to sell 400,000 words of material To produce 400,000 words of original work in one year would be nigh impossible if one is writing “part time.” Writing involves a lot of other things you don’t do, Daggy: research, proof-reading and editing. These things take time. So, based on what you said previously, you must be selling a lot of reprints to reach that sort of volume.
But lo and behold, he comes a hypothetical writer with true professional aspirations, and while working a day job manages to crank out and sell 100,000 words of quality short fiction in a year. Going with the SFWA minimum of $0.05 per word, our writer has made… $5000… at least. If he sold, half of that work for an average of $0.08 per word, he’s made $7,000 that year. All with First Rights sales.
As I said, Dagstine, you’re trying to make the numbers lie, and it’s not working.
So much for that … more to come before I overflow this text window.
Sorry for the tl;dr, Rusty… Like I said, I’d nail this on Daggy’s blog, but the little coward doesn’t allow comments.
Also from your first example you say this:
“Always charge less than what the Writer’s Market suggests for these jobs; work with your clients, they’ll use you again or recommend you to others.”
This is poison. This bad advice, and I think you’re spewing this deliberately in an attempt to keep more novice writers beneath you on some imaginary totem pole that doesn’t exist in the professional writing world. Carpenters don’t drop their rates for repeat business or exposure. Neither do printers nor roofers nor any tradesmen. Writers should be no different.
Logic says you’re wrong on this one — if I charged the suggested rate in Writer’s Market, I’ll more money than you (again) and if the work itself is of good quality, the market will be glad to have me back. They might even give me more money next time.
So let’s look at “example #2”
Okay, so Hypothetical Writer is farming a novel. Yeah it may time to sell and time to get it printed and on the shelves. But guess what else that writer is doing while waiting for a response? He’s still writing, dumbass. More novels, and more short fiction. The professional writer (or the one with such aspirations) doesn’t stop writing just to wait for a response on one item.
Your “Deal or No Deal” analogy is about as valuable as toxic waste. That game show is 50/50 mix of chance and psychology. While there is a certain element of chance in writing, it’s a probability that can be analyzed (there go, using that Math degree again, WHEE!) and tested for patterns of behavior. Markets go through trends and cycles, and the saavy reads what’s on the shelves at B&N to see where things are and tries to be one step ahead. But there’s more to the professional markets than just chance. There’s the quality of one’s work, and the professionalism in presenting it to an editor.
Larry, didn’t your one story “The Girl Who Dreamt Portals” (lousy title) get rejected from a market because you ignored what the guidelines said about reprints? That’s one of the number one reasons a work gets rejected…
So yeah, all of your so-called advice here isn’t worth the toilet paper I use to wipe my butt with. Do us all a favor, and close down your lie-ridden blog. You’re not breaking ground in the genre. You’re not famous. You’re an admitted stalker, abuser of the mentally ill, a creep, pedo (based on what you said in the Polanski thread on SL), ten-time loser, and a rotten liar.
Okay, I’m done… off to the gym, then to writing.
That’s magnificent analysis, Mike.
Thanks… I just wish I had proofed it before posting. 🙂
It is clear in a couple of spots that you were thinking faster than you could type. That happens to me.
But I have finally begun to calm down. I went two weeks without my meds because of a screw up with the insurance and just got them an hour ago.
I can feel the difference in my ability to deal with Dagstine now. Pain does crazy things to the mind.
Thorough, as always, Mike.
Nicely done.
Oh I like that! I like that very much, Mike!
Spot on about the under charging bit. It is typical thinking from someone who always thinks in underhand ways of getting by without doing anything worthwhile.
Also, is this supposed 5000 gross or net? What about the money going out to hire editors to clean his work up for him?
And my math was wrong in my first example of the Hypothetical Writer and his 100,000. If he sold half of them at 5 cents per word and half at 8 per word, his net would be $6500. I shall now condemn myself to a steak dinner.
At least you can do basic math and admit when you screw up.
Bravo, Mike! Well done. I’m okay with teal deer, so don’t worry about it. 😉
Everyone else beat me to the punch, but I almost coughed up a lung from laughing at his use of “mojo” to mean money. Apparently, his infamy for never researching is not an understatement!!
Re: the thread title
Personally, I find Lawwy to be VERY trying.
I think that Lawwy was trying to insinuate that either Otter or Philbin sent me that email.
I notice that he’s been silent about me again.
One of the biggest problems for me is when the nitwits catch when I am physically struggling and not prepared for them.
However, the incident has provoked a series of blog posts at LJ.
Another is that he tells all these lies and so many of the 4theluvs and other small spots take his word for granted when he refuses to list where and what he sold. It gives him a false appearance of legitimacy to those who do not know where to look for the truth
Or else, they just don’t care about anything other than putting up the appearance of legitimacy themselves.
Dig these reviews. Only the last one got it right.
http://bittenbybooks.com/?p=19120#comment-131336
The last one did well. Hopefully there will be more reviews at that level.
Didn’t Dumbstaine once claim to have cancer?
He does anything he can to get attention, whether good or bad. I know they say that all press is good press but in Dumbstaine’s case…
Yes, he claimed he had an ultra-rare middle ear cancer, from which he miraculously recovered after about a month.
Yeah the cancer came at a time his name was mud at SL. Right after some crap where most there were fed up with him, he announced he had ear cancer and probably wouldn’t return. In the midst of battling it he supposedly found the strength to stalk Rusty irl. After the “aw I’m sorry hope you get better” posts on SL, and his latest screw up over there died down, he returned without mention of it.
Well, he did do a “FUCK YOU I DIDN’T FAKE CANCER” line when someone mentioned it, but nothing before or after. No talk about treatment (considering all he blogs about, and no chemo talk or anything) nothing. Consider all he blogs about, then search for him and stuff like chemo or cancer and you won’t find anything. He beat cancer in the time it takes most people to get test results back and never said a word about it.
I thought it was very telling that less than two months after returning, he once again got himself into a mess over there, when someone suggested he leave there, he made some comment like “Don’t worry you’ll be getting your wish soon”: In other words he did another self-pity flounce threat forgetting he did that days before using CANCER.
Janrae: Link to the LJ posts you mentioned?
He did claim he was dying, and whine about vertigo so bad he had to pull himself around on the floor, as part of his “fuck you, I didn’t fake it” spiel. Nobody bought it, though, because all he really did was hang out on the Silverthought and Whispers of Wickedness forums instead of SL. Then he got kicked off Silverthought.
The posts are just my dealing with Larry by using him as a springboard for discussions of his type of activity. I compared it to chicken livers and cheese.
I’ve moved my discussions of the nitwits to http://carcinomangel.wordpress.com and to my lj, which is also called Cussedness.
He waxed lyrical about seeing how precious the world was and making the most of the time he had left. He did everything but say I’m going to die. He tugged on any heart string he could.
A lot of people on here did the decent thing and wished him well if he was being honest. Can’t say I was one of them.
Check out his blog entry about it.
Fascinating stuff. He’s the biggest liar I have ever seen. His whole attitude was “I’m sick. Pity me. And keep your bloody mouth shut while I dump shit on you.”
Yeah, right, Larry. LIke I’m going to let you walk on me?
Nah…. You step on me, I tromp on you back.
Did you notice the author link to Kris Rusch in his sidebar? If he even read her blog topic about professional jealousy, he probably interpreted it as stuff that’s done to him, not by him.
He probably didn’t read it. He just put it up there to make himself look all the more legit.
The thread Phailbin started, in which Daggy became unhinged on everybody, finally got deleted. Daggy hasn’t been adding his two cents all over SL the past few days (not that I’ve seen, anyway). Anyone know if he finally got banned?
It’s interesting that he’s been so quiet. Usually he kicks off four or five threads to shove the one where he makes an ass of himself off the front page.
It got deleted right after I took another shot across his bows, informing him that I had his IP and knew he had sent the hate mail
I guess he must have gone apeshit. Because it was still there this morning
Do you have a screen shot of the last of it? I think I have through Shanari’s reply.
Unfortunately, no. I’m certain something more must have happened. My last reply sat there for a couple of days and I did not think to make a screenshot.
I got too busy with other things. I wish I had kept checking.
“There’s one short that I’ve sold over seven, eight times already. These are often called “Trunk Stories.””
No. They’re not.
Daggy evidently hasn’t been banned. He’s been dropping turds of wisdom on several threads at SL this morning.
Trunk stories don’t get sold… that’s why they’re in the trunk.
Again, Dagstine, reality proves you wrong.
If anyone would strap a pair of mukluks into some snow shoe bindings, and call them his ski boots, it’d be Daggy.
I just tested it and I haven’t been banned from SL. So I guess that’s something. Or maybe nothing, considering how twisted Matt’s concept of (un)fairness has become.
Matt had a concept of fairness? When was that?
lol. Well, I think he believes that he is fair, but in actuality it’s just plain twisted.